Domestic Discipline -- The Conversation

Ask for what you want and be prepared to get it. -- Maya Angelou
 
Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of people who are in our would like to be in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a good week. 

Mine was busy and a little stressful, though it was also one in which I found some preconceptions challenged, and in a good way.  Several weeks ago, I alluded to a problem I had created for myself at work.  It involved misinterpreting (maybe) something that someone had said to me, resulting in me going off on them in a way that wasn't appropriate regardless of whether I did, in fact, misinterpret their intentions.  I got a hard and well-deserved spanking as a result of it.  Well, this week I found myself spending a large chunk of time with the person in question.  Turns out we have a hell of a lot in common, and not just in terms of volatile and aggressive personalities.  We not only grew up in very similar environments.  Eerily similar.  Interacting with him was also interesting, because it gave me an opportunity to watch someone whose behavior is so similar to my own, and what I observed was that his aggressiveness and controlling approach to things was effective.  I've spent a lot of energy at work the last year or so trying to tone down my own level of aggressiveness, because it has capped my upward movement to some extent. But, the bottom line is, for my profession it kind of works.  I was thinking about all this in relation to comments Fred has made here from time to time about not wanting to use DD to become more submissive in any other aspect of his life. Weirdly, I was thinking about those comments right before he suddenly popped up again with a comment after several weeks off.  I also had been thinking some things along these lines due to the  death of Sam Shepard, one of my favorite actors and playwrights, whose characters and writing often explore themes of what it means to be a man.  So, the week had that sense of the Universe sending me some signals that in experimenting with FLR and trying to be more submissive at home, I really don't want to be any less aggressive, controlling or, for lack of a better word, manly in the rest of my life.  The challenge, of course, is not to over-rotate on this and fall into a pattern of truly unhealthy and unhelpful behavior.

Anyway, we didn't get much of a conversation going last week.  I suspect people are distracted with summer quickly coming to an end.  Re-plowing old ground may also bore some of the regulars, but I still want to go in the direction I set out last week, focusing more on content that helps people who think they want one of these relationships explore how to do it. 

"I want you to spank me.  For real. If I do something bad or something you don't like, I want you to take down my pants and give me a real spanking.  I want you to use spankings to make me truly want to do better and to make me really regret it when I don't."

That's what this week's topic is about.  How do you have that conversation?  Last week we talked a little about why some of us were driven to Domestic Discipline and what we hoped to get out of it.  I assume that for most of us, the desire preceded the reality. In other words, we realized we wanted to try this kind of relationship, and then took some action to get there.  For my wife and me, that took the form of a conversation I initiated.  As I explained last week, I had found the Disciplinary Wives Club website, became more than little obsessed with it, and ended up telling my wife about it.  While I may have started the conversation with a lighthearted, cavalier tone ("Hey honey, I found this interesting website today . . ."), I did in that same conversation fess up that this was something I wanted to try, though I was also honest that it kind of scared the hell out of me.  She was intrigued enough to take a look at the website the next day.  Had I not been honest about my desire to try this, and had I not put myself out there and shown some real vulnerability during that first conversation, I'm not sure she would have gone any further.  It was me admitting that I wanted to at least try this and being very open about why that gave her the emotional incentive to follow up and to take it seriously.

For us, the biggest hurdle was probably her concern that if I "wanted" to be spanked for doing something bad, wouldn't the spanking just reinforce the bad behavior?  To get over that, I was clear from the begging that I wasn't suggesting erotic spankings or spanking as foreplay. Not in any way, shape or form.  I was suggesting real spankings, like some of us got as kids from parents or at school.  These would be spankings that would leave me chastened, reddened, very sore and possibly in tears.  The goal was to make the paddling bad enough that I would really, really want to avoid another at all costs.  I also told her that I recognized that my behavior was often hurtful or inconsiderate but, because of the way we were both raised, she did not feel she could do very much about it other than pout and engage in other passive-aggressive behaviors.  The conversation was very much about us consciously deciding to empower her and dis-empower me, in order to bring a sense of balance to the relationship.  I emphasized that she would be able to set the rules and enforce them at will and that, while it would be a struggle for me, I was agreeing as a condition of the new relationship that I had to give in to her discipline, whenever and wherever she chose.

It was also important that she see that this wasn't about dungeons and leather and all those S&M or BDSM trappings that may turn on some women but likely scare off many more from.  So, that too was part of the conversation. I wasn't asking her to change who she was or adopt some new persona.  She got to stay exactly who she was but with new authority and power.

That initial conversation was critical to getting us started down this path.  Without it, my recently discovered obsession with this thing called Domestic Discipline would have remained just an unfulfilled fantasy. 

Did your Domestic Discipline relationship start with a similar conversation?  Did you have to convince a reluctant spouse?  How did you get them to be comfortable with the idea at least enough to try it?  And, while we don't get a lot of postings from dominant spouses who initiated the disciplinary relationship, it does occur.  Holly being one example, but there are others.  I would love to hear from more women who decided they wanted this kind of relationship and acted on it.  What was that conversation like? 

I hope you all have a good week.

Beginnings

“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.” Anais Nin

I am a disciplined husband.  I have been one for over a decade, and counting.  Exploring Domestic Discipline was my idea, which might surprise you if you knew me in "real life."  Like many men who feel attracted to giving up control to a strong woman and being held accountable by her, I am not "naturally" submissive.  To the contrary, in every other aspect of my life, I tend to be a leader, not a follower.  In fact, I hate being told what to do and I've never been presented with a rule that I didn't promptly set out to break.  I also tend to be hard-charging and very goal focused.  I like performing at my best and feel a lot of guilt when I don't meet the standards I set for myself.  I have been like that most of my life, though my career really brought those controlling and performance-oriented tendencies to the forefront.  After a decade or so of living that way, I was materially successful but not particularly happy. Everything felt out of balance. I was always in charge. Always the person making the decisions. Which was overwhelming sometimes.

Our marriage was similarly out of balance. My wife was raised in a very traditional, male dominated family, and she brought that habitual mindset into our marriage. It wasn't that we had consciously created a male dominated marriage, but that was just sort of where our personalities naturally took us.
 
We had dabbled in erotic spanking, so that bridge already had been crossed. That "dabbling" came relatively late in our relationship.  We had been together for about 10 years.  From what I have since gathered from the conversations on this blog, my DD journey is a bit atypical because, while it was me who introduced spanking into our bedroom repertoire, I did not have any kind of early fascination with it.  I had, in fact, never even considered engaging in it, whether giving or receiving, as an adult.  That changed when I watched a "Real Sex" episode on HBO that had a segment on erotic spanking.  It was a turn-on, and some time after that, I bought a small leather paddle and asked my wife if she would try using it on me.  She did, but it was never very hard and always erotic in nature.

We incorporated some femdom scenarios into our play,  characterizing the spankings she was giving me as “punishment” for various things I had done wrong.  That began to create problems.  Some of my behaviors really were a problem and really were pissing my wife off.  But, because the spankings were relatively mild and always part of our sex play, she began to see them as more reward than punishment, and she was right about that.  She definitely was not interested in doing anything to reinforce my bad behavior, so she stopped the spankings entirely.  I didn't really care, and it didn't feel like much of a sacrifice.  I was still somewhat interested in spanking-related subjects, but while the idea of being spanked did excite me, it was not a big deal and not remotely close to a fetish or compulsion.  If I came across spanking-related content on the internet or in a magazine, I might read it or follow a link to other content, but it didn't really bother me at all that my wife was not interested in making spanking an ongoing part of our sex life.

That all changed when I somehow came across the Disciplinary Wives Club website.   I don't really remember how that came about, but I remember the effect it had on me like it was yesterday.  Unlike our previous erotic spankings, the spankings advocated by "Aunt Kay" were intended to be real punishment to correct real misbehavior.  Many of the fictional scenes and "Real Couples" letters involved wives imposing the DD relationship, or taking it far beyond what the husband envisioned when he first asked to experiment with it.  In other words, many of the scenarios involved "consensual non-consent" or the husband asking for it but "getting more than he bargained for."  In several of the stories, the wife announced that the spanking would not end until after her misbehaving husband was in tears.  That was what really got me.   Not the spanking per se, but the idea of submitting to someone's control so fully that I might have to accept the ultimate humiliation of being brought to tears over my wife's knee. For an admitted "control freak" like me,  that kind of loss of such control was truly terrifying. But, it also was, undeniably, fascinating, though morbidly so.

I spent two or three days in a state of near obsession.  I literally could think about little else and had trouble sleeping, distracted by thoughts about this lifestyle and what it might mean.  After a few days of that, I brought it to my wife's attention, initiating the discussion almost like I was conveying a funny joke. We were laying in bed together, and I initiated the conversation in some benign way, like "I found this funny website on the internet . . . "  I explained the premise.  Women taking control of the marriages and using real corporal punishment on their husbands.  I explained that unlike the situation of "rewarding" bad behavior with fake, erotic spankings that had led her to bring our previous spanking experimentation to a halt, these were real spankings, designed to punish and correct behavior.  She asked whether I was suggesting this as something we should actually try. I told her, very hesitantly, that I didn't really know but that it had been on my mind constantly since finding the website.  The hesitation was because, I knew very well that I was suggesting something that might prove to be incredibly painful and that my ego found immensely threatening. She told me that she would take a look at it.

I was sitting at my desk at work the next day, when she called and said she had visited the DWC website.  "So, . . .?" I asked.

"Very interesting," she replied.  That was it.

"So . . . what does that mean . . ." I probed.

"Well, I guess it means you need to go buy me a nice, high-quality wooden hairbrush.  When you get home, we can talk about how and when it is going to be used."

The rest is, as they say, history.  While she was game to give it a try, she was concerned that this could still reinforce bad behavior if the spanking became "fetishized."  Therefore, our foundational rule was that the spanking had to be "real" each and every time.   It had to be severe enough to constitute real punishment. And, that is what we have been doing ever since.

So, how did your own Domestic Discipline relationship get started? 

Have a great week.

Why Domestic Discipline

"Be careful what you wish for.  There's always a catch." -- Laure Hale Anderson

Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women in, or wanting to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a good week.  Mine was not very eventful.  Other than a behavioral issue on Monday that she would have given me a very hard spanking for, were it not for some distractions that got in the way.  But, it still may be coming.

To those who joined in the discussion last week, thanks for contributing.  As I said, some repetition is inevitable, but I myself can never really get enough of "origin" stories when it comes to Domestic Discipline.  There are just so many variations on how people get into these relationship, it is endlessly fascinating to me.  But, then, I am kind of voyeuristic by nature.  One reason I like the participatory nature of doing this blog is I get to hear so many interesting stories.  It also tests my assumptions.  When I first started the blog, I definitely had some pre-conceived notions about how and why people get into those relationships.  I think in general some of those notions were grounded in reality, but only with respect to some segment of the DD community.  It's been an awakening experience to hear from so many people about what led them into this fairly unique lifestyle.  And, contrary to the views of some of our regular commenters, I do still believe these relationships are fairly uncommon.  Oh, I know, lots of couples are into spanking, but that is not the same thing as being into Domestic Discipline.  I have no way of knowing for sure, but I really don't think there are all that many people who are really into spanking as a true disciplinary tool.  Hell, even in the community of people who visit and comment on this blog, only some portion (and there are weeks it seems to be a small portion) are focused primarily on the disciplinary aspects of a spanking relationship as opposed to the "funishment" or erotic interest. 

Anyway, last week's topic was about how people first got into Domestic Discipline.  This week, let's talk about the "why."  What was it that made you ask for this?  And, most of you did ask for it.  While in fictional DD stories it is usually the wife who initiates it, in the "real world," the opposite seems to be true.  Far more often, it is the man who asks to be spanked for his transgressions that the wife who decides to impose that on him.

When you think about it, that really does seem pretty odd, right?  Most of us don't like pain.  Most of us also usually like getting our own way.  So, why is it that at some point in our lives, many of us end up asking our wives to spank us, and to do so very long and hard such that it is a real punishment?  And, why do some of us want those spanking to be part of turning over control of parts of our life to someone else?  Even those whose relationships are focused on Domestic Discipline without many of the "Female Led" elements are still handing over some fairly significant amount of power and giving up some degree of autonomy, since you are empowering her to punish you in an attempt to change your behavior.  At least where those behaviors are concerned, you have ceded control and done so knowing the consequences may be really, truly painful.

So, why do we want this and what motivations or desires does it meet?  What itch does it scratch?  Take a look at the poll near the top of the blog.  It is a variation on others I have posted.   It tries to get at this issue of what motivates us to not only take, but often initiate, a lifestyle in which we often have to submit ourselves to painful and humbling punishments?

For myself, despite being in one of these relationships for several years, and being a fairly self-aware person (at least I like to think so), I don't have a solid answer.  As I recounted last week, I was not a "spanko" in my younger years.  I had never once thought about adult spankings until well into my '30s.  Even when we started playing with erotic spanking, it wasn't wasn't all that interesting to me, let alone the kind of compelling fetish it clearly is to some.  Yet, when I stumbled on a website devoted to Domestic Discipline, it just hit me like the proverbial ton of bricks. I literally couldn't sleep the night after I found it, and not much for a few days after that.  Something about it just grabbed me.  Looking back and trying to recall what the primary driver was, I know part of it was related to accountability and boundaries.  The stories of wives meting out punishment for real offenses were compelling, and it had something to do with being held truly accountable.  Which as I've said before is really an odd thing for me to be attracted to, because I am generally so anti-authoritarian.  But, part of me clearly wants it, even if I rebel against it.  But, I'm not sure that really gets at the heart of it either.  The stories that really got to me at my core all involved being brought to tears by a spanking.  But, when I say "got to me," I don't mean erotically.  At least not in any simplistic way. Frankly, those stories scared the shit out of me, but I also found them morbidly fascinating.  To say the prospect of being brought to tears by a spanking from my wife gave me "butterflies" is such an understatement.  It almost made me want to throw up -- the feeling was that powerful.  Yet, I undeniably wanted it. 

So, for me, there seem to be a lot of motivations at play.  I want to be held accountable. I crave imposed boundaries, even if in every aspect of my life I push against them.  I want the catharsis, and maybe even the embarrassment, of being brought to tears by my wife.  Part of me craves being lectured and treated with a very maternal strictness.  All of that is in there somewhere, and I have no idea why none of it came out until pretty late in life.  And, my decade-long interest in this lifestyles is not all emotionally motivated.  Part of it is just recognizing that I don't always have the willpower to behave in ways that help me be successful or that help me avoid the natural consequences of bad behavior.  So, the prospect of getting spanked can help with that. 

So, what motivated you to seek this out?  Or, if you are one of the few disciplined husbands on whom the lifestyle was imposed, or if you are a disciplinary wife who imposed it, what was the primary driver for that happening?  For you personally, what needs did you think the DD or FLR lifestyle would serve?

I hope you all have a great week.